Either way, today, we shall be looking at five great debates of history. At the end we shall choose a winner.
There's no criteria really to be in this contest. All five of the entries are from vastly different circumstances.
The Five entries shall be discussed in the following order:
1) Bobby Heenan debates Ken Patera
2) The Penguin debates Batman
3) Kongming debates the most renowned scholars of Wu
4) Brain Gremlin debates a Pseudo Grandpa Al Lewis
5) Gunther Toody debates Francis Muldoon
Okay, if you're familiar with any of these you already know that all five of these were a meeting of minds that really shook the foundations of all four corners of this great earth. Choosing a winner out of this set will be difficult, no doubt.
Okay. Here we go!
Five Great Debates in the Human History!
1) Bobby Heenan debates Ken Patera
Here we see both men at their podiums engage in a nice well mannered debate. To be totally honest here ... I'm not sure what the topic is that they are debating but I think it has to do with the fact that Bobby Heenan is a jerk and Ken Patera is trying to use examples from his personal life in effort to prove this.
Mr. Patera spares no quarter and leaves no stone unturned as he airs his grievances of the Brain during his turn at the podium. The most gregarious of Bobby Heenan's behavior appears to be that whilst Mr. Patera was incarcerated in the county jail Heenan NEVER visited him, NEVER called him, and DIDN'T EVEN send Ken Patera a card while he was in prison. Not. Even. A. Card.
Patera was dumbfounded by this behavior by a person he thought was his friend. He even asked his wife if she heard anything from Bobby Heenan and his wife said she had not. Patera goes on to claim that whilst in the lonely confines of prison, he had numerous lonely nights to ruminate over Heenan's behavior and also people like Heenan of this world in general. He came to the conclusion that Bobby Heenan is not a good person.
During Heenan's time to counter Patera's points he is very blunt and unremorseful ... going as far as to repeatedly refer to Patera as being a bum and a convict. Heenan's coup-de-grace hit pretty hard as he told Patera that without his managerial skills Patera would never ever get a Championship belt. Heenan then proceeds to remove his own belt and says "You want a belt! I'll give you a belt!" .... he then starts whipping Patera with said belt. Oh my.
It's probably not a great idea to start whipping people with belts during debates, especially if your opponent is a former Olympic weight lifter, but who could blame Bobby here? I mean, Patera said some pretty nasty things about him. I do agree with Patera that Heenan should have at the very least sent Patera a card during his incarceration just to let him know he cares. Like a "Get Out Soon" card or a "Happy Jail" card .... or whatever card you send to someone after they are incarcerated in county jail.
Patera counters during his grace time by taking the belt away from Heenan, bull whipping 'em around the ring with it, and just about garrotes the man. Wow.
This truly was a meeting of two great men.
Winner: Ken Patera
Means: Almost garroted opponent with his own belt.
Moral of the story: When in doubt in a debate just start whipping a guy with a belt. Maybe something will happen, and this outlandish act will turn the tides of the engagement... or maybe the guy will get very mad about it, harangue you across the ring and just about garotte you.
2) The Penguin debates Batman
Just an average day in Gotham City as Batman and the Penguin are the two candidates in Gotham's mayoral race. Most people expect the beloved Batman to be a shoe in to win ... but lo, what's this? The Penguin uses the debate across Gotham's air waves to slander and hurl invectives at our favorite caped crusader!?
I got to to give it the Penguin and his brilliant debate style here. He juxtaposes Batman into a position that no one could be able to wriggle out of. Penguin asked the people of Gotham why is it that Batman is always seen in the newspaper photographed with criminals whilst the Penguin is always in the newspaper photographed with law authorities? Maybe it is because Batman is in league with these nefarious ne'er-do-wells while the Penguin is obviously in league with the law? Hmmm. Makes sense.
Batman wants to counter these vicious slanderous lies yet slander wasn't the last of the Penguin's dirty tricks. The Penguin ordered his henchman backstage to cut Batman's microphone feed on the live broadcast and replace his audio with go-go music (or some 60s era feel-good music of some sort). Unbelievable. How is Batman to counter the Penguin's slanderous attacks when all of Gotham can only hear go-go music on the broadcast and not any of Batman's words.
Well played, Penguin. Well played. Some may call your strategies sinister, but not I.
Winner: The Penguin
Means: Juxtaposed Slander mixed with a little bit of whimsical go-go music over his opponent's microphone feed.
Moral of the story: No one can counter slander while their live audio feed is overlayed with annoying 60s music. Not even Batman.
3) Kongming debates the most renowned scholars of Wu
Here, Liu Bei's most trusted stratagist, Kongming, has travelled to Wu to convince the prince of Wu, the scion of Sun Jian, Sun Quan, to declare war on Cao Cao of Wei.
When I say the scholars and officials of Wu, I'm not talking about like just one or two of them were there. No, there was like all of them there. Let's see, amongst the officials of Wu present that day included:
Zhang Zhao
Gu Yong
Yu Fan
Bu Zhi
Xue Zhong
Lu Gong Ji
Yan Jun
Cheng Bing
And many more....
This was like a twenty on one debate here. Kongming was truly in a den of wolves if not a cave of tigers in this debate environment. Even Bu Zhi was there. Wow. I respect guys like Kongming who can saunter into a veritable sea of mistrust and just be as chill as can be. The guy is in a handicap match here, 20 on 1, and is just waving his feather fan, fanning himself, and staying composed as if he was simply at a leisurely banquet. If there's one thing I know about Kongming is that the dude does not panic under pressure.
All goes quite smoothly until Zhang Zhao just starts laying into Liu Bei, hard. I really must comment that Zhang Zhao was acting like a total fool in this debate. After what Liu Bei went through in Xu and Runan how can this man say such slanderous things about him? Zhang Zhao is really taking a low road here and his words are quite blunt. He goes as far as to call Liu Bei a thieving vagabond. Zhang Zhao even compares Liu Bei to a rat in regards to how he retreated from his battle with Cao Cao! Liu Bei is like Kongming's best friend in the whole wide world! How can Zhang Zhao say these things right to Kongming's face like this? It's almost too much to watch. If I was there I would not have had the patience to put up with a person like Zhang Zhao, who's acting like a total buffoon in this debate. If I was there I would have taken off my belt and starting haranguing him and bull whipping him around the ring ... I mean palace.
Yet, Kongming is a better man than I, as he effectively counters Zhang Zhaos's slander with choice words instead of over-the-top theatrical belt-related violence. He asks the seemingly rhetorical question of "How can common birds understand the long flight of the Roc?" ... Zhang Zhao ponders this seemingly rhetorical question for a moment and then realizes what a silly person he was being. Even silly men such as Zhang Zhao have the competence to see the err in there ways when it is presented to them with crystal-clear clarity.
Kongming's finishing attack in this debate is to be assertive and call these sweaty nerds out. He finishes his remarks by saying to the officials and scholars of Wu that all their book-learning and their precious book-smarts is great and all but you can't apply that theoretical horse fodder to anything. Book smarts won't help anyone when it is time to really get down and do the do. He goes on to say that some of the greatest heroes of yesteryear were farmers and fishermen with little to no use for stuffy book-smarts and who were surely not nerds.
Thus, Kongming openly ponders to the audience of officials if the prince of Wu is a man who would really take his marching orders from this gaggle of filthy and idiotic nerds!? No way, says the Prince of Wu. As the dust settled on this historic debate .... Suan Quan agreed with Kongming's points over his officials' points and forms an Alliance with Kongming to fight Cao Cao of Wei.
All this happened simply due to Kongming's coaxing. In the end, it was as easy as turning your hand and catching turtles in a jug for ol' Kongming is what it was.
Or so the story goes.....
Winner: Kongming
Means: Brilliant use of poetic rhetorical questions to show men the err of their thoughts.
Moral of the story: Sometimes you don't need a belt to shut a mouth. Sometimes a potent rhetorical question will work just as well. For it is true indeed as Kongming made clear ... Who says the common bird cannot understand the long flight of the Roc? Surely it was not I who would say something such as this. A common fellow like myself could never dare understand the dealings of the Heavens or of things of a similar magnitude to the Heavens ... yet, to explore this question further ... obviously a common man could not understand the workings of the mighty Heavens ... but no more so can a King or a Prince understand the workings of them either. Just because Zhang Zhao and his elite intellectual gang of crumb bums went to some fancy-pantsy school doesn't mean they are any closer to some sort of greater understanding of the world. Who is to say a fisherman cannot be a Prince or a farmer cannot be a King? Didn't the simple fisherman Li Jun of Mount Liang Shang go on to become the King of Siam?
Hmmm.... If a snake has no horns does this automatically suggest that it will never become a dragon? Heavens no, of course not. Yes ... it seems what Kongming was trying to tell Zhang Zhao was something as simple as the old western adage of "don't judge a book by its cover" yet these simple words showed Zhang Zhao the error of his ways in the most edifying manner possible.
I must confess ... sometimes Kongming really impresses me.
4) Brain Gremlin debates a Pseudo Grandpa Al Lewis
The first sentient and self-aware Gremlin, known as Brain Gremlin, is invited onto Pseudo Al Lewis' talk show and is tasked with the daunting endeavor of proving his brood (the Gremlins) are not mere monsters but are a civilized society on par with humans.
Yes, Brain Gremlin is behooved on live TV to justify to Pseudo Al Lewis the inherent Gremliness or Gremlinhood of the Gremlin.
I don't wanna delve into too much Gremlins 2 studies as there is a more than capable twitter account (The Institute for Gremlins 2 Studies) devoted to the field that has already covered many bases in regards to Gremlins 2: the New Batch academic endeavors.
I am going to focus solely on the debate itself and who won it instead of getting bogged down in Gremlins 2 semantics. The debate wherein Brain Gremlin debates a pseudo Granpa Al Lewis on whether or not the Gremlins can be considered civilized is what we're working with here.
People think because Brain Gremlin has a working lexicon structure and able to relate himself to Pseudo Grandpa Al Lewis that he is obviously civilized. Yet, as we plainly see from Brain Gremlin's anecdotes on the matter that HE HIMSELF believes he is NOT civilized. He is not even trying to come across as a civilized creature and just because he can talk doesn't mean anything. This supposed "smart" Gremlin has little value for the life of his brethren as seen when he shoots one in the face with a pistol mid-debate.
It seems, didactically speaking, that unlike what some people studying Gremlins 2 are trying to lead people to believe (i.e. The Gremlins 2 Institute believes the Gremlins of Gremlins 2 are civilized and that we should be sad when they are eradicated and melted into goop)... I however take the opposite view that we should NOT cry for the eradication of the Gremlin brood at the finale of Gremlins 2 (or 1 for that matter) for they were nothing but filthy murderous fun-loving monsters and not misunderstood creatures. Plus, on top of it all, they are ugly and they are gross.
Winner: Pseudo Grandpa Al Lewis.
Means: The Brain Gremlin defeated himself in the debate. As he was tasked with proving that the Gremlin brood is civilized and on par with humans ... he failed and entirely on his own accord. Though to his credit it seems he chose to fail of his own volition... which would show he has freedom of choice. Hmmm. Wait a second. I'm reversing the decision. If these creatures have the freedom of thought and the ability to make choices on par with humans, even if their choices are bad ones, then I have to admit he did prove the inherent Gremliness and/or Gremlinhood of the Gremlin (of Gremlins 2).
***DECISION REVERESED***
New Winner: Brain Gremlin
Moral of the Story: The Gremliness or the Gremlinhood of Gremlinkind? That's a hard topic to make someone prove. To me this debate in relatable-to terms was like if you taught a cat to talk and then brought the cat on some TV Show (i.e. Live with Regis) and made it try to prove cats are on par with humans. The cat would probably not get the bit and get all scared, scratch Regis's face, be kicked off and permanently banned from the show. Would that prove a cat is an animal? No.
If you were a talking cat would you wanna go on some talk show and speak in defense of the cathood of cats? No, you wouldn't. You'd wanna go like talk to birds and say mean stuff to them before you ate them.
And yo, if you had a talking cat and you brought it on some talk show ... I bet a lot of people would want to meet the cat and some of them wouldn't have the talking cat's best interest at heart. I saw this episode of "The Littlest Hobo" (a famous Canadian show about a really smart non-talking dog who travels around Canada preforming gracious deeds for society) once where these scientists found out about how smart this hobo dog was ... so they captured him and wanted to cut his brain up and find out why he was so damned smart! You can't cut up the Littlest Hobo's living brain you guys! What the hell is wrong with you guys?
Same thing with a talking cat on a talk show ... I bet some nerd would want to disect its head and find out why it can talk for. Don't bring your talking cat on a talk show! Okay? Look I'm not saying I could teach a cat to talk ... but ... if I did ... I wouldn't make it go on a talk show to explain his/her self to humankind. I guess the real moral here is that if you can teach a cat to talk you don't have to brag about it. You know? It'll just annoy people and pose a danger to the cat.
Anyways. Cats are cats. Gremlins are Gremlins. Humans are Humans ... and Al Lewis is Al Lewis. This person on the opposite end of this debate, this fake Al Lewis impersonator, putting the Brain Gremlin on the spot has some obvious existential malaise of his own. I mean we know he's not the Real Grandpa Al Lewis. All the viewers watching him KNOW he is but a reasonable fact simile of the Grandpa Al Lewis. If I was Brain Gremlin here I would have turned the tables on that host. I would have been like "you want ME to prove Gremlins are sophisticated creatures!? YA RIGHT! How about YOU PROVE that you are GRANDPA AL LEWIS and speak in defense of the Al Lewisness and/or Al Lewishood of Al Lewis!"
Then again, if I was Pseudo Al Lewis in this debate ... I 'd probably lose it pretty quickly with this pretentious geek Gremlin and maybe just take off my belt and start bull whipping him and haranguing him all over the ring ... I mean studio.
5) Gunther Toody debates Francis Muldoon
As you know, in this legendary debate amongst humankind ... Gunther Toody debated Francis Muldoon over who will be next President of the 54th precinct's police brotherhood club.
Muldoon has held the title for many many years at this point and many of the officers of precinct 54 want a change for change's sake and urge Muldoon's partner, the gravel-voiced yet dim-witted Gunther Toody, to contest his presidential position in the coming election.
Gunther Toody gets the Presidential Itch pretty fierce and along with his right-hand-man Sgt. McBride, acting as his campaign strategist, they form an incredibly slanderous and populist campaign to unseat the incumbent Muldoon.
Muldoon, not wanting to muddy his hands and sink to Toody and McBride's level, takes a more lax campaign strategy. He actually doesn't even campaign as he thinks his long public service record and reputation will be reflected in the polls. Sheesh, Yeah right, Muldoon. What hokey-pokey planet of do-gooders does this 7 foot alien come from?
The combined force of Toody's out-of-nowhere Presidential Itch (that itch you get when you wanna be the President that you just can't scratch) and Sgt. McBride's machiavellian-esque stratagems soon become a force too powerful for Muldoon to continue to brush off. Toody and McBride's unscrupulous work comes to a crescendo and pinnacle as Toody and McBride print a slanderous brochure right before the leadup to the first official debate ... "The Truth about Muldoon."
During the debate, Toody reads excerpts from "The Truth about Muldoon" brochure and then right as Muldoon attempts to counter these filthy outrageous lies .... McBride comes on the loud speaker to inform the officers of precinct 54 that there is FREE BEER being offered in detention cell six (Toody campaign official headquarters). Watch as the men exit the room ... not even hearing Muldoon's turn to speak in the debate ... and boy-oh-boy could they care less about what he had to say in his defense.
Gasp! Does this mean what I think it means? Will Gunther Toody's underhanded approach to the debate lead to Toody being President of the brotherhood club!? Surely you jest! How can a guy like that be the President of ANYTHING!?
I don't want to spoil the end of the episode if you've never seen it but ... even though Toody won the debate he still lost the election. Thanks to a hero who swooped in at the last minute with an ironclad if not dymaxion Strategy to sink Toody's ship, and do you know who that hero was?
....It was the REAL Grandpa Al Lewis!!!
Winner: Gunther Toody (though he went on to lose the eventual election)
Means: Filthy slander and innuendoes which damaged Francis Muldoon's pristine reputation as brotherhood club President of precinct 54 ... oh and FREE BEER!
Moral of the Story: There is no substitute for the REAL Grandpa Al Lewis who came to the rescue with brilliant tacticmanship to put an end to Toody's populist uproar at precinct 54.
Gremlins 2 came out in 1990 in a world where the REAL Grandpa Al Lewis was still alive. As to why there is a Grandpa Al Lewis character in Gremlins 2 yet one in which is not portrayed by the actual Al Lewis is shocking. It's not like Grandpa Al Lewis was like untrackdownable like Grady Wilson from Sanford and Son was ... Al Lewis was in the horrible remake of Car 54: The Movie with Buster Poindexter and that came out in 1994 ... four full years AFTER Gremlins 2!
It could not have been hard to find REAL Grandpa Al Lewis in 1990 for the filming of Gremlins 2 ... I've heard in interviews, from Hank Garrett (I think), that diners used to pay Al Lewis in his older years to just hang out at New York diners so people could be in a diner and go "Wow, that's really the REAL Grandpa Al Lewis at that table, honey look!" ... so, I don't think it was too hard to find him.
Either way, I think I'm being too hard on the actor who did a great job portraying Grandpa Al Lewis in Gremlins 2... the remarkable and respectable actor Robert Prosky who was brilliant as Sgt. Stan Jablonski on Hill Street Blues.
Alright, what were we talking about? Moral of the thing? Yeah, That'd be cool like if like back in the 90s you'd be in a diner in New York and you look next to you and it's like ... "WOAH! It's GRANDPA! WOW"
Conclusion
Out of these five contestants in this extravaganza who shall come out on top?
I won't give it to Heenan vs. Patera, I think Patera made some excellent points and yes Bobby "The Brain" Heenan should have sent Ken a prison card when he was in prison ... but the whole debate seemed like much ado about nothing in the end. Fresh fruit for rotting vegetables as the saying goes. I like the part where Heenan starts whipping Patera with his belt though.
I won't give it to Kongming. He is soooo good at his craft, the art of words ... yet in the end he could not unify the Middle Kingdom under the flag of Liu Bei ... he did all he could but in the end it was Sima Yi who accomplished this with the remnants of Wei's forces. I think it was Sima Yi anyway, I don't remember the end of those books too well, and to be honest, the fourth volume of Romance of the Three Kingdoms gets a little stale after all the cool characters from the previous volumes are all long deceased.
Gunther Toody? Similar to Kongming, despite brilliant tactics he failed at his ultimate goal thanks to the late-inning heroics of Real Grandpa Al Lewis.It's between Brain Gremlin and the Penguin ... and I gotta say ... I like Burgess Meredith ... he was a GREAT actor. Mick in Rocky, the guy who broke his glasses post-apocalypse thus ironically couldn't read his books after he finally had time off from the bank now that the world was over and everyone was dead to read said books...
Yo, eighties kids, did you know Burgess Meredith did the voice of Golobulus in GI Joe: The Movie? Yeah, he did. This guy deserves the award, he does. When it comes down to it ... we gotta give the trophy to Burgess, don't we?
The 2018 Great Debates in History Award goes to ...
.... Burgess Meredith!
